Bill Cobabe to E V (another friend on Facebook)
December 8, 2008 at 5:38 pm
response to message
the message I got sent was:
It is very offensive and disturbing that someone would promote the methods of communism, even in jest. Please consider how much you're promoting Satan's plan.
(I am not telling you who sent it)
my response was:
Are they the methods of communism? Or are they the methods of the underimpowered? Why does it have to be communist to want people to be empowered? I thought that was the point of democracy - to ensure the rights of the greatest number of people... People being united and having power doesn't frighten me; it invigorates me.
I meant no offense. I apologize if offense was given.
Satan's plan is simply this: to frustrate the work of God. I can find in the scriptures various references to plans. They seem to fall into three main categories:
1. The plan of salvation. Or alternatively, the plan of happiness. No where in the scriptures can I find where this is tied to capitalism or loss of liberty. Quite the contrary, I usually find it in connection with ideas of unity, purity, and in having all things in common. Please keep in mind that common, commune, and community all share the same root word. This is also marked by a lack of racial or social divides.
2. The plan of the evil one. As stated above, his plan is to oppose the things and plans of God. Descriptive words I find in the scriptures include cunning and secret, perversion, destruction, deception, etc. Satan's plans are very subtle and he has many, many tactics that he uses to ensnare the hearts and souls of men. Greed, pride, arrogance, ignorance, are all tools he uses to his nefarious purposes. As Paul says in Ephesians, we are not wrestling against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
3. Secret combinations and plans made by men. These plans typically come from Satan himself who uses these organizations to gain greater control over the hearts of men. These secret combinations are built up to get power and gain. Frankly, I don't know of any of these combinations currently - but that's the definition of SECRET combinations... But I have concerns about some of the things that I see going on in the world that are built up specifically to get power and gain. Something interesting I noted was 3 Nephi 7:6 which states that "And the regulations of the government were destroyed, because of the secret combination of the friends and kindreds of those who murdered the prophets." Sound familiar?
When I say power to the people, I mean that in the most liberating sense possible - that people need power to be able to govern their own lives and destinies, power that for too long has been denied them. I also believe that this power comes from God in the form of agency and accountability. But there is little accountability going on right now...
And when I reference workers, I am referring to the people of the world who actually do the work and are yet oppressed by the system in which they find themselves. The golden rule Christ gave us has changed from "do unto others..." to "those who have the gold make the rules." Who speaks for the rights of the oppressed? Are workers expendable or are they our brothers? Do they have souls or are they just cogs in the machine? What is the purpose of life anyway? How much is enough?
One last thought. We have only seen a very few fully-functioning Zion societies on this earth. They share characteristics: purity, obedience, love, unity, and having no rich or poor (or having all things in common). It's the true ideal we should be looking toward - not something that promotes continued class divisions along any lines - including economic.
I will change my thought if it is offensive. I certainly meant no disrespect.
(End of copied message)
There are a couple of references there to the Book of Mormon, which may be obscure or unclear to you. But I think the gist of the message is clear.
In Mormon or LDS tradition, there have been a couple of times in history that societies have been able to live a higher existence. One was the City of Enoch, where Enoch was able to get people to such a high level that God took them up to live with Him (whether that is literally or metaphorically is somewhat unclear, but the idea is that they were too pure to be left on the earth). Another was following Christ's visit to the American continent following His resurrection and ascention. The beginning verses of Fourth Nephi in the Book of Mormon describe this society - which I admit may sound a lot like a communal society. But it is also the ideal that I believe we are all striving for. Without any goal or measure of potential how can we ever hope or achieve?
The guy I have offended above is one who is very conservative and libertarian. He also believes that communism is Satan's plan. I leave it to your judgement to make that particular call. Personally, I think oppression and repression, ignorance and arrogance are tools that Satan uses and are the great failures of capitalism.
December 8, 2008 at 5:38 pm
response to message
the message I got sent was:
It is very offensive and disturbing that someone would promote the methods of communism, even in jest. Please consider how much you're promoting Satan's plan.
(I am not telling you who sent it)
my response was:
Are they the methods of communism? Or are they the methods of the underimpowered? Why does it have to be communist to want people to be empowered? I thought that was the point of democracy - to ensure the rights of the greatest number of people... People being united and having power doesn't frighten me; it invigorates me.
I meant no offense. I apologize if offense was given.
Satan's plan is simply this: to frustrate the work of God. I can find in the scriptures various references to plans. They seem to fall into three main categories:
1. The plan of salvation. Or alternatively, the plan of happiness. No where in the scriptures can I find where this is tied to capitalism or loss of liberty. Quite the contrary, I usually find it in connection with ideas of unity, purity, and in having all things in common. Please keep in mind that common, commune, and community all share the same root word. This is also marked by a lack of racial or social divides.
2. The plan of the evil one. As stated above, his plan is to oppose the things and plans of God. Descriptive words I find in the scriptures include cunning and secret, perversion, destruction, deception, etc. Satan's plans are very subtle and he has many, many tactics that he uses to ensnare the hearts and souls of men. Greed, pride, arrogance, ignorance, are all tools he uses to his nefarious purposes. As Paul says in Ephesians, we are not wrestling against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
3. Secret combinations and plans made by men. These plans typically come from Satan himself who uses these organizations to gain greater control over the hearts of men. These secret combinations are built up to get power and gain. Frankly, I don't know of any of these combinations currently - but that's the definition of SECRET combinations... But I have concerns about some of the things that I see going on in the world that are built up specifically to get power and gain. Something interesting I noted was 3 Nephi 7:6 which states that "And the regulations of the government were destroyed, because of the secret combination of the friends and kindreds of those who murdered the prophets." Sound familiar?
When I say power to the people, I mean that in the most liberating sense possible - that people need power to be able to govern their own lives and destinies, power that for too long has been denied them. I also believe that this power comes from God in the form of agency and accountability. But there is little accountability going on right now...
And when I reference workers, I am referring to the people of the world who actually do the work and are yet oppressed by the system in which they find themselves. The golden rule Christ gave us has changed from "do unto others..." to "those who have the gold make the rules." Who speaks for the rights of the oppressed? Are workers expendable or are they our brothers? Do they have souls or are they just cogs in the machine? What is the purpose of life anyway? How much is enough?
One last thought. We have only seen a very few fully-functioning Zion societies on this earth. They share characteristics: purity, obedience, love, unity, and having no rich or poor (or having all things in common). It's the true ideal we should be looking toward - not something that promotes continued class divisions along any lines - including economic.
I will change my thought if it is offensive. I certainly meant no disrespect.
(End of copied message)
There are a couple of references there to the Book of Mormon, which may be obscure or unclear to you. But I think the gist of the message is clear.
In Mormon or LDS tradition, there have been a couple of times in history that societies have been able to live a higher existence. One was the City of Enoch, where Enoch was able to get people to such a high level that God took them up to live with Him (whether that is literally or metaphorically is somewhat unclear, but the idea is that they were too pure to be left on the earth). Another was following Christ's visit to the American continent following His resurrection and ascention. The beginning verses of Fourth Nephi in the Book of Mormon describe this society - which I admit may sound a lot like a communal society. But it is also the ideal that I believe we are all striving for. Without any goal or measure of potential how can we ever hope or achieve?
The guy I have offended above is one who is very conservative and libertarian. He also believes that communism is Satan's plan. I leave it to your judgement to make that particular call. Personally, I think oppression and repression, ignorance and arrogance are tools that Satan uses and are the great failures of capitalism.
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